Comicscape


The Next Big Bust

By: Kurt Amacker, Columnist
Date: Wednesday, January 09, 2008

Greetings, Maniacs, and welcome to another long look into the dark heart of Comicscape! I thought about devoting another week to complaining about that recent Spider-Man catastrophe One More Day, especially given that the first issue of the new post-retcon Brand New Day comes out today. But, I realized that OMD has larger implications for comic books that we should consider. More than anything, it reminds me of one of the great comic book controversies of the 1990s – the dreaded Clone Saga. If you really want a detailed summary, read more at The Clone Saga Timeline, which details the many steps of this massive, three-year storyline. In short, Peter Parker found out that he was really a clone of Ben Reilly. Parker thus retired as Spider-Man, and Reilly took over as the Scarlett Spider for a few issues. May Parker even died in Amazing Spider-Man #400. Ultimately, the story proved so unpopular that Marvel jumped through hoops to correct it, showing that Norman Osborne – the Green Goblin – had never died following the murder of Gwen Stacy, and had orchestrated the entire event, including Aunt May’s fake death. Though initially well received, fans now revile the storyline as one of the worst in the character’s history, and see it as emblematic of the excesses comic publishing in the 1990s – outlandish and convoluted storytelling, manufactured collectibles, and a story spread across too many titles for far too long. 

On March 16, 2005, I wrote a column called “On Getting Hosed in the 1990s, and Why It’s Happening Again.” In it, I predicted that the industry would crash again as it did in the ‘90s after the litany of fiascos that ultimately brought it to its knees – the respective death and crippling of Superman and Batman; the abortive Image/Valiant crossover, Deathmate; Marvel’s decision to distribute their own comics to the direct market; and the glut of manufactured collectibles and speculation that fueled sales. Given the steady climb of the industry after the success of so many comics-to-film adaptations, the increased sales of collected editions, and the industry-wide focus on stronger writing, many have predicted the next great comics recession. These sort of dire prophecies have become commonplace, as everyone waits with near-morbid anticipation for the industry to bottom out again. The guys at Ye Olde Comick Booke Blogge posted a point-by-point explanation detailing why the end draws near. You can read it there, but it boils down to some of the same exploitative, short-sighted tactics by Marvel and DC that helped fuel the last crash – multiple titles-per-character, massive crossovers, and variant covers.

Between One More Day, the Countdown to Final Crisis fiasco, and the ironically timed relaunch of Youngblood (available today, written by Joe Casey, and with a variant cover by Rob Leifeld), a few of the symptoms have clearly emerged. Before we dive in, consider sending your thoughts on the possibility of another industry crash to either comicscape@mania.com or kurtamacker@yahoo.com. I’ll run your letters next week with my responses. Now, let’s examine a few of the practices that helped fuel the 1990s boom and its ultimate crash and see if the end is really near. 

Multiple Titles Per Character

I have mixed feelings about this practice. If I enjoy reading about a character, I hardly mind reading about him or her twice a month. Ultimately, it depends on the writer. If Wolverine had three titles and, hypothetically, Marvel announced that Alan Moore or Grant Morrison would write a fourth one, I’d certainly buy it. But, we’ve seen that ancillary series will often simply die in favor of the core title or titles. No matter how many Batman spin-offs DC publishes, Batman and Detective Comics will remain in print long after the rest have folded. Amazing Spider-Man outsold all of the spin-off series by a wide margin, thus leading Marvel to consolidate all of them and effectively force readers to buy the other titles. Thus, rather than creating a series with a new – or otherwise unused – character with an eye towards longevity, the publishers bank on a “sure thing” with a spin-off book that readers of the original series will ostensibly buy. And if they don’t, you can always just publisher the core title three times a month to make them. Throw in the glut of extra miniseries and one-shots packing the shelves and I’d say you have a strong return to a 1990s trend. 

Massive Crossovers

This one has returned in force. But unlike the 1990s, Marvel and DC often publish not only a core miniseries, but several crossover and tie-in issues in regular titles, along with spin-off miniseries. Sometimes, you even get a parallel title to complement the main miniseries, like Civil War: Frontline. While that particular title succeeded in ways that no one expected, its very premise seems contrived – to show an outsider’s perspective of the event from the point of view of reporters Ben Urich and Sally Floyd. That sounds like a story idea produced under the mandate to cram more Civil War books onto the shelves. Similarly, DC’s Countdown to Final Crisis has spun off into eight separate miniseries, along with a glut of tie-ins within the publisher’s regular titles. As the guys at Ye Olde Comick Booke Blogge point out, Marvel actually has to publish checklists to keep everything straight. I realize that crossovers remain a logical consequence – and a necessary evil – of shared universes, but publishing additional miniseries comes off as a shameless move to milk completists out of more money. This one definitely stinks of the ‘90s excess.

Variant Covers

This one doesn’t come off as badly as it once did, but perhaps I’ve just stopped paying attention. Variant covers remain common enough, but Marvel and DC don’t market their collectibility to the degree that they once did. That lends more credence to their take-it-or-leave-it approach to the practice. Some fans still buy multiple copies of the same copy, but I don’t think anyone in their right mind thinks that they’re purchasing a sure-fire investment by doing so. Collectors, by their very nature, often want both just to have them. Variant covers come off as shameless enough, but with many shipping in equal numbers, the practice isn’t as insidious as it once was. This one looks like the 1990s, but it doesn’t have quite the same connotations that it once did.

Delays

Delays in the middle of mega-events have returned, along with the other problems I’ve highlighted. It seems almost guaranteed that any mega-event – except 52 and Countdown –will experience a delay. It happened with Civil War and One More Day, and a host of other high profile miniseries. In a worst case scenario like Civil War, the delay caused several tie-in issues to ship late, thus throwing off sales for retailers who had to go without the dependable sales of several ongoing series. Delays annoy fans, but they impact retailers financially. The guy at the comic shop has to deal with lost sales, titles dropped from pull lists, and customer complaints. There hasn’t been a high profile delay on par with Deathmate yet, but it could happen. This one is a 1990s nightmare back in full force. 

Must-Buy Collectibles

This one ties into the variant covers issue, but it’s really more of a question of how publishers market their comics. Other than in the Certified Guarantee Company’s (CGC) advertisements extolling the value of graded comics on E-Bay, I can’t recall any effort by a major publisher to sell a comic as a potential collectible. Back in the 1990s, this practice applied not only to variant covers, but to first appearances, prestige editions, first issues, and any other reason why a publisher could swear that a comic would accrue value. The driving force behind this mentality lies in the periodical distribution system. Comics are considered magazines. As such, they come out every month and then go out of print. Anything that Diamond distributes comes out based on orders placed three months in advance. That means that the major publishers distribute their comics in customized numbers. DC, Dark Horse, and Image overprint their books in anticipation of reorders, Marvel does not. Overprinted or not, once a print run sells out, the book is gone. In the 1990s, collected editions, reprints, and digital downloads – legal or not – were comparably scarce. A sold-out issue meant that a fan would have to buy one from another collector or a comic shop that held on to a few copies. Now, though the original run may have sold out, the story will become available in other formats very quickly. This has always been the case with book publishing. For fans that prefer trades or don’t really care about buying second printings, the collectibility of a given issue means very little. The major publishers have kindly realized this and don’t market comics as investments. This shift might actually prevent another crash or at least mitigate it. Comics don’t sell as well as they did in the 1990s, because everyone doesn’t buy multiple copies or add every single X-book to their pull list. The higher you fly, the farther you have to fall. The publishers don’t depend on the sales of individual issues the way they once did, because comics simply aren’t as popular as they once were. Thus, they find other sources of revenue in licensed media, collected editions, and other merchandise. There have been comic-based movies, television shows, video games, and toys for a long time. But in the past ten years, those products have created a substantial source of revenue for major publishers and their parent corporations. The industry no longer depends primarily on the sale of magazines that go out of print as soon as they hit the shelf. While Marvel and DC may overpopulate the shelves with spin-offs and other ancillary titles, they don’t try to convince anyone that comics will make them rich. This practice has largely – and thankfully – died.

Outlandish Storytelling

When I think of the 1990s, I can’t help but think of Age of Apocalypse, The Clone Saga, Batman: Knightfall, and The Death of Superman – stories that take their characters in bizarre, often intentionally controversial directions to drum up sales. Some writers can take a series in a radically new direction and change it for the better. Grant Morrison’s run on New X-Men took the series past years of ersatz Chris Claremont stories and into new and interesting territory. Alan Moore revamped Swamp Thing in the 1980s to great acclaim. It can happen. But, more often than not, a publisher takes a series out into left field to generate curiosity that will, hopefully, renew interest. I can’t help but include One More Day, Identity Crisis, Civil War, and so many other event books under this umbrella. If anyone thinks that the major changes that have occurred in Marvel and DC’s output over the last few years will stick, they need to look at the pattern of expansion and contraction that comics have experienced over the years. Invariably, a series will move in new directions until it becomes so far removed from popular conception that it has to come back. Dan Slott did it for Spider-Man in Brand New Day. Ed Brubaker did it for Daredevil recently. Joss Whedon did it in Astonishing X-Men. DC ostensibly did it for all of its titles after Infinite Crisis with One Year Later, but that was part of a larger move to make their universe yet more incomprehensible. It always happens: something weird happens that angers fans and moves the character away from his or her most common conception – those versions written by Claremont, Frank Miller, Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, and the like that are found in so much licensed material. Then, the publisher and the new creative team yell “We’re taking Ass Hat Man back to his roots! It’s old school time! This is the version of Ass Hat Man you grew up with!” I’d say this ‘90s practice is back in full force.

Now, Maniacs, what do you think? Are we headed for another comic book recession? Let me know your thoughts and I’ll run them next week.

The Spinner Rack

By Ben Johnson and Kurt Amacker

DARK HORSE COMICS

BPRD 1946 #1 $2.99

Ben: Stoked on this!

BPRD TP Vol 07 Garden Of Souls $17.95

Buffy The Vampire Slayer Omnibus TP Vol 03 $24.95

Kurt: My wife’s stoked on this.

Conan Blood Stained Crown And Other Stories TP $14.95

Ben: In this issue: SOMEONE DIES!!! (Just doesn’t have the same effect when it’s a Conan book).

Kurt: My hands get wet just holding this book.

Criminal Macabre Complete Cal McDonald Stories TP $12.95

Kurt: This is actually a collection of Steve Niles’s Cal McDonald novels and short stories. Yes, it’s a real book.

Evil Dead #1 (Of 4) $2.99

Ben: OHH! WHA! HMMPF! Excuse me while I go change my pants.

Kurt: Damn it. I don’t buy licensed books. I don’t buy licensed books. I don’t buy licensed books.

Goon #20  $2.99

Ben: I remember when I used to look forward to every new issue. That was a long time ago.

Savage Sword Of Conan Vol 1 TP $17.95

Kurt: Dark Horse reprints 542 pages of the old Marvel black and white magazine. I think I’m going to change MY pants now.

Star Wars Dark Times Vol 1 Path To Nowhere TP $17.95

Star Wars Knights O/T Old Republic Vol 3 TP $18.95

Star Wars Legacy #0 1/2 One Shot $2.99

Ben: #0 ½ One Shot? What in the hell is that? I hope this someone’s idea of a joke, otherwise a puppy will die. No, I like dogs. I’ll kill a kitten!

Kurt: Sorry, but I protect the cats.

DC COMICS

52 Aftermath The Four Horsemen #6 (Of 6) $2.99

Bat Lash #2 (Of 6) $2.99

Batman Strikes #41 $2.25

Ben: For the end of jokes about Batman going on strike.

Canon Vol 04 $9.99

Cartoon Network Action Pack #21 $2.25

Ben: Just once they should do this with Adult Swim characters. It would be Seduction of the Innocent all over again.

Countdown To Final Crisis 16 $2.99

Ben: I can’t wait until Kurt has to read all these for the column. Did anyone else notice how the “halfway through” article just went away? I bet at week 21 New Orleans gets nailed by Hurricane Kurt.

Kurt: Just thinking about a long weekend of 52 issues of Countdown is enough to drive me to alcoholism.

Gen 13 #16 $2.99

Green Arrow Black Canary #4 $2.99

Green Lantern Corps #20 $2.99

Grifter And Midnighter TP $17.99

Ben: Something about having toilet paper with gay Batman on it that close to my penis (resolution check) is unsettling. 

Infinity Inc #5 $2.99

JLA Classified #50 $2.99

JSA Presents Tp Vol 02 Stars And Stripes $17.99

Nightwing #140 $2.99

Salvation Run #3 (Of 7) $2.99

Showcase Presents Robin The Boy Wonder Tp Vol 01 $16.99

Simon Dark #4 $2.99

Ben: Freaking cool!!

Spirit #12 $2.99

Suicide Squad Raise The Flag #5 (Of 8) $2.99

Superman #672 $2.99

Ben: I am so confused by all the crap that has been pushed through this and Action that I’m just about to give up on Big Blue.

Kurt: I think they’d have to transform Superman into a 12-year-old girl to get me to actually drop Action and this. It’s just tradition. 

Teen Titans The Lost Annual $4.99

Wildstorm Fine Arts Spotlight On Wildcats $3.50

Women Of The DCU Series 2 Wonder Woman Bust $49.99

Wonder Girl #5 (Of 6) $2.99

IMAGE COMICS

Infinite Horizon #2 (Of 6) $2.99

Ben: It’s a near future retelling of the Odyssey and it is F**king Rad!

Walking Dead HC Vol 03 Sgn Ed (Pp #791) $59.99

Youngblood #1 $2.99

Ben: The original retold with new art but not. If that doesn’t scare you off how about this: By Rob Liefeld

Kurt: Actually, this is by Joe Casey working from the original concept by Rob Liefeld, with art by Derec Donovan. The whole Maximum Youngblood remix thing already came out. 

MARVEL COMICS

Amazing Spider-Man #546 BND $3.99

Ben: Three issues of Amazing Spider-Man per month starts today. This would be totally awesome if JQ hadn’t pissed off every Spider-Fan last week.

Kurt: Part of me wants to buy this just to check out the book post-Straczynski, but I don’t know if I can bring myself to do it.

Beyond TP $14.99

Ben: When you’re finally ready for a bidet. I have to be honest here. I don’t even want to make TP jokes anymore, but every time I pass up an obvious one Kurt says “Ben, I can’t believe you didn’t make a toilet paper joke.” Thereby making a toilet paper joke himself and passing it off on me. The humanity!

Civil War Chronicles #7 $4.99

Essential Captain America Tp Vol 04 $16.99

Ghost Rider #19 $2.99

Ghost Rider TP Vol 03 Apocalypse Soon $10.99

Hulk #1 $2.99

Ben: Hulk turns red. “Hulk only want what is fair, Comrade!”

Kurt: It seems kind of appropriate, doesn’t it? I mean, people actually turn red when they get angry. Why don’t I write for Marvel.

Hulk #1 McGuiness Retailer Var $2.99

Ben: And for the jackasses.

MTV: “On this episode, Johnny Knoxville and Bam buy a stack of variants and then try to make a tidy profit six months later! Don’t try this at home!”

Marvel Adventures Hulk #7 $2.99

Mighty Avengers #7 SII $2.99

Ben: This makes Countdown look like high art.

New Warriors TP Vol 01 Defiant $14.99

Nextwave Agents Of Hate TP Vol 02 I Kick Your Face $14.99

Ben: This was Marvel’s best book.

Kurt: This was pretty damn awesome. Then again, it’s Warren Ellis. How could it not be?

Nova #10 $2.99

Ben: And now this is.

Onslaught Reborn #5 (Of 5) $2.99

Ben: Finally, Kurt can have his read through!

Kurt: It’ll be more like a marathon wiping session after a long night of beer, pizza, and pork rinds. 

Punisher War Journal #15 $2.99

Twelve #1 (Of 12) $2.99

Ben: Oh clever, it’s called twelve and has twelve issues.

Ultimate X-Men TP Vol 17 Sentinels $17.99

Wolverine #61 $2.99

X-Factor #27 MC $2.99

Ben: After some of the message board regulars touted Messiah Complex last week I gave it a read-through. Message board regulars, good call!

Kurt: I’m waiting for the trade. I’m not trying to be an ass, but there are too many issues in this one to try to pick them all up.

Questions? Comments? Let us know what you think at cinescape@mania.com.



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Comments/Responses
1 2 3 4 > >>
shadowprime • Jan 09, 2008, 04:25am •
I am a fan of comic books who started reading them back when dinos still walked the Earth - just to make it clear where I am coming from! - and I guess I have some sympathies for the comic book companies in this sense...

Is their market (at least as regards superhero comics) pretty much boys and young men who will (on average) read for maybe three... five... eight years, and then move on? Or is it the longer term reader who wants continuity, wants the characters to age, marry, divorce, die, have kids, etc?

To me, this question drives a lot - not all, but a lot - of the discussions we keep having re what should happen with the flagship characters.

Take, for example, Spiderman.... on and off, I have been following Spidey for decades now - a scary thought. But even so, for me, the "real" Spiderman is relatively young (somewhere between high school age and 25), single, a bit nerdy, a photographer for the Daily Bugle who has to deal with the anti-Spidey rantings of JJJ, a bit of a wallflower who "comes out of his shell" when wearing his costume, etc, etc, etc. He has an elderly Aunt May, widow of Ben Parker, whose murder provides Spidey with the revelation of what to do with his amazing powers.

In short, to me, the "real" Spidey is the "classic", archetypal Spidey.

And I would argue that in many ways, the core APPEAL of the characters, the things that have hooked generations of readers, are rooted IN those core archetypal characteristics.

SO ... if you believe the vast majority of the market is made up of relative short timers... mainly kids who will read for 3-8 years or so... I can see a reasonable argument for your characters to live in an "Archie Andrews" like, relatively static universe, where relatively little changes.

Of course, that drives most longer term readers crazy. They want continuity, change, they don't want Peter Parker to be in high school or college forever, they want to see characters aging, dying, getting married, divorced, etc, etc. And I can understand that - to a point. I definitely can. But some of the things that this group loves can make a book much less inviting to a new reader, who doesn't want to, or can't really be expected to, try and learn about and untangle decades of "continuity".

I think the "gimmick" issues and storylines are really aimed at the latter group. To keep long term readers around, there is the sense that you have to give them novelty, gimmicks, etc... something they "haven't seen before". And I think there is some truth in this...

I don't have "an answer". Guess I am saying I can see the dilemma. Which group do you target? How do you satisfy both? Maybe you DO need two tiers of books - relatively "static" universes for the short term readers, and some "running continuity" for long term.

Shadow

PS - Speaking from a personal perspective... the proliferation of titles is definitely one reason (among others, granted) that I stop following certain characters. When, for example, there are five or so Spidey titles, it just becomes "too much".

PPS- I don't want to turn this into a "Company vs Creator" debate, but I will say this... back in the old, "bad" days when Artists/Writers were at the mercy of Marvel/DC, the books did, in general, come out on time. And while that may sound trivial, and while it may be just a personal thing with ME, I have to say that the crazy publishing schedules, the constant slippages and project cancellations and delays that are a part of the modern market DO drive me crazy and make me less interested in following titles on a regular basis. In the "old days", the character/title was the product... that is, for ex, it was more "AMAZING SPIDERMAN" or "AVENGERS" than it was "John Doe's SPIDERMAN" or "Joe Smith's AVENGERS". I am not downplaying the importance of artistis and writers (and even in the old days, there were clear favorites, obviously) but it seems to me that one aspect of recognizing or embracing projects assigned to particular artistic teams is that it seems to have lessened pressures to actually put the work out there in a timely fashion. As a result, who KNOWS when you will see the next issue of "hot project" X, Y or Z? Somewhat off point, but as long as we are discussing the state of the industry for good or ill, thought I would throw that in... I find the scattered publication schedule to be a real disincentive to following comic books these days.

spiderhero • Jan 09, 2008, 05:39am •
Quesada is a bleeping idiot. I hope some mob guy in NY is a huge Spidey fan and goes to Marvel offices & breaks his bleeping legs. I am so bleeping mad at Quesada for RUINING my favorite character. But there is hope. Here's my idea: Doctor Strange senses something wrong with the universe. He checks it out & discovers what Peter & Mary Jane did. He tells them. They get back together. They Get Reed Richards to invent a machine that will allow them to travel to other universes. They come to ours. Once here, Peter beats the bleeping crap out of Quesada like he did to the Kingpin. Quesada sees the light & changes things. Then dies. Happy ending.

ponyboy76 • Jan 09, 2008, 06:34am •
Well, the thing is Shadow, the demographic of who actually buy comics consistently are males in their 20`s and 30`s. They are the ones with the disposable income to pay for all the various monthly titles. They also have usually been collecting since they were teens. They don`t want to see their characters get old, but they do want them to mature and grow.
Quesada pretty much just slapped the shit out of 70% of the comic book buys community with what he did to Spidey and threw out 20 years of continuity.

smegforbrain • Jan 09, 2008, 06:53am •
I'm not a huge fan of the major, company-wide crossovers, as I don't buy everything, so it does (regardless of what Marvel claims) make it difficult to keep up.

But the key, and this is subjective, is whether it's a worthwhile and well-told tale. Civil War started out great but ended with a whimper. WWH was so far over the top, that the end result seemed to be inevitable that it too would finish with a whimper.

Messiah Complex (and it's predecessor, Endangered Species) are fine... if you're already buying all the books.

And going back a ways, I always loved Age of Apocalypse. But, when I went back last year to reread the entire saga, I found that it had far too many titles and issues to really keep me engaged as it did when it first came out.

thorin02 • Jan 09, 2008, 08:40am •
I’ll second what shadowprime said in his PPS. Delivering product on time MATTERS. And trying to claim that certain ‘creative teams’ are allowed more leeway is idiotic.

Was Joss Whedon allowed to delay the second season of Buffy for 5 or six months? No, the network gave him a schedule of when shows would be aired and he and the rest of the Mutant Enemy team were required to meet that schedule period. The same goes for JJ Abrams with Lost or David Kelly with Boston Legal or any other writer or producer in TV land.

Lead times in the publishing world are usually 3-6 months depending on the book and the company. If a creative team makes a commitment to get out a monthly title and has up to six months to get the first issue ready and knows there is supposed to be second right after that than by god they should get the damn book out.

A creative team can negotiate in advance for title to come out once every two months or once a quarter if they feel coming up with 22 pages of material every month (again with 3-6 months lead time) is too difficult, but once they commit to a schedule every effort should be made to make that schedule.


Merin • Jan 09, 2008, 09:13am •
Interesting column as usual, Kurt.

The comments have an interesting discussion going on here, and I want to add one quick thing as my 2 cents. -- I've said it a couple times before and often been blasted for it, but I'll say it again because I mean it - Scripting a 20-some page comic book script takes NO TIME. You can knock it out in a day. 1 page of comic book script < 1 page of movie script < 1 page of short story or novel. The delay for comics should logically come from the artists - a good penciller might be able to knock out 2 good pages of art a day. If you have a monthly deadline, there is NO reason for comic script delays. There are writers churning out several titles a month.
Rewrites and cleaning up a script could take forever until the writer is "satisfied" with his work, YES, so a "polished" comic script might take Edgar Allen Poe his whole life and never be finished - but publishers so cry "Nevermore!" to that kind of perfectionism.

That's my thoughts on that.

As for all the cross-overs, the scheduling, the fall of comic books -

Comics aren't for kids, haven't been so for a long time. The truth of the matter is that most comic-book readers are POST college age - you're looking like mid-twenties on up into their forties.
If you exclude manga.

I sell comics. I have a small enterprise that is barely started (maybe about 6 months at this point) but my first regular customers? Girls. Manga readers who branched. A teen girl who started buying Supergirl and Superman/Batman, and another couple of girls who were buying licensed property (Buffy, Angel, Supernatural.) My biggest pull customer is in his late twenties. Most of the others who drop buy and buy like a dozen or more books at a pop are 30's to 40's. The demographic fits almost EXACTLY what I've always thought it did when I frequented comic stores in Chicago.
Owners of bigger stores in bigger cities are going to remember the young kids and the more freaky, needy customers as they will stick out in their memory - the quieter, less obnoxious adult men who grab their mags and go slip from memory.

Working at Waldenbooks for 3 years, kids were buying Manga and sports/car mags, not comics. Comics were bought by a handful of teen-early twenties women, and then guys older than mid-twenties. The only kids with comics I ever saw were the bored pre-teens looking at the pictures while waiting for mommy to get another bible or Jodi Picoult book.

Marvel and DC have way over-stepped the cross-over overload boundray. About 2 years back they were pushing things, and now we're in ridiculous territory again.
I cheat, so I can keep up. I read my inventory when it comes in, so books I would never pay for (Bendis) I get to see how bad they still are.
There are books I purchase to "support" the creators / stories, though. I probably pull as much as my biggest customers (bad for business, I know.)

For the most part, my customers fall into 3 categories:
People who want 1-3 titles and that's all they read.
People who buys many, many titles from 1 publisher, regardless.
People who buy tons of titles, regardless.

Normal comic-book shoppers, for what I've experienced so far, are not complaining to me. The couple times I've talked to these people they are just ecstatic that they can BUY comics again in an area for years that only had the poor selection at book stores.

invisioner • Jan 09, 2008, 09:35am •
My feeling is this, the heroes we read about can have one of two fates, either follow the story legends of Beowulf, Hurcules, Achilles, etc and follow a logical progression of heroic, tragic life, and then naturally die to make way for new heroes, or go the Prince Valiant newspaper strip route and forever be in a limbo of constant action and no growth. In the 30's-70's that is primarily what they went through, constant non-ending action that really had no consequence on their lives, but then, they decided these heroes need depth, so their actions started having consequence, and not always for the better. You can't do that and always hit the reset button. So, you make digests of old issues for new readers to enjoy.

I loved spidey growing up. I could relate because I was the science freak that got picked on in school. Now? I am a newspaper photographer with a moron editor, I have some adventure in my life, and I even married the head cheerleader where I went to university!
Is my life perfect? Hell no, I deal with other problems that have matured and make our lives a struggle, and I think that learning from our actions are what readers no matter what age can gleam from. Heck, I learned a lot from comic books (Colossus taught me cool Russian words for instance!) and life lessons, if they are going to be crammed down readers throats today to make the characters "deeper" then everyone on the editors board needs to stick by their decisions and let them play out. " Do overs" are the tool of the poor writer!

I think Spidey can keep his "CORE" even when married, Aunt May-less, and successful in other ways. But the issues can change, it just takes a good writer to explore that, not over hyped, I-am-a-rockstar-in-my-own-mind writer. I have gone to enough comic conventions to be completely unimpressed with the hubris of some of these morons.

So a quick survey, when was the last time you read Prince Valiant?
-Yeah, that's what I thought-

Merin • Jan 09, 2008, 09:40am •
invisioner -

Nice. :)

HunterRose • Jan 09, 2008, 09:45am •
I started reading Spider-man way back in the early 80's (way before Venom was even around) and stopped after the Clone Saga. It was until J. Michael Straczynski took ever many years later that I started reading Spider-Man again. Joe Quesada (that selfish bastard) ruined the Peter Parker that grew up and matured along with me. I have already dropped Amazing Spider-Man from my pull list and will not pick it up again until Peter and Mary Jane get back together. You hear that Mr. Quesada?

joeybaloney • Jan 09, 2008, 09:47am •
Speaking as someone uncomfortably close to 40 who has been collecting since he was 8 years old - I collected close to 60 titles a month between the Big Two and others. I quite the X-Men years ago due to the ridiculous number of books involved to keep up. I was always a bigger Spider-man & Batman fan so I stick with them even when they have too large a selection per month but tend to ignore everything but the core books (Amazing, Spectacular, Web Of & what have you, and Batman, Detective, Robin & Nightwing). I'd get the occasional extra series (Long Halloween etc) but for the most part can't bother with things that fall outside mainstream continuity.
I remember, in my younger days, getting all excited about a big cross over event. Nowadays they usually elicit more of a groan from me. I have to admit to being a sucker for the Crisis stuff, but off the top of my head I can't think of any other big event in the last decade that I really cared about. I thought 52 was an amazing series but Countdown is nothing but ads for other comics as far as I can tell and this Countdown To Final Crisis has been wearing thin for quite a bit. That said I'll be all over Final Crisis.
As someone who has been collecting for a while I can say, even back in the day, variant covers held no interest for me. Personally, though I bag and care for my books, I've always just collected for the stories and cared little about the investment end. I recognized immediately what crass commercialism variant covers were and immediately dismissed them. They most work though, as the sure ain't gone away. Lately there does seem to be an enormous glut. I've never understood this phenomenon.
As someone who has been collecting so long I guess I long ago fell out of Quesada's desired demographic. It's too bad for me I guess because sadly he's in charge of the comic character I care the most about. His disregard and disrespect for myself and other older long time readers is sad. I'm so upset over the editorial decision to ret-con the last 20 years of Spidey (and in doing so MOST of the rest of the Marvel U) that the close to 60 titles a month I bought has been reduced by the 22 Marvel titles I collected regularly. I told my shop to stop pulling my Marvels on Monday. I can't be bothered supporting a company that cares more about marketing than maintaining a relationship with it's longtime loyal readers. Quesada has alienated a lot of people with this move and doesn't seem to care one bit. I hope sales for his books drop dramatically and don't pick up again until after he's been shown the door.

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