TV Wasteland

The crew of ENTERPRISE
© 2001 Paramount/TV Guide

RANT: Rivet Counting

By: Stephen Lackey, Columnist
Date: Monday, February 11, 2008

Do you know this term, “rivet counting” when it refers to movies and TV? The gist of it is that rivet counters can’t enjoy the architecture because they are to busy counting the rivets. By definition of what I do, writing reviews, I’m forced to rivet count to a point but with every rivet I count, I also try to take in the overall architecture too. For example, many rivet counting fans of The Terminator television series can’t stand it because of what it does to the mythology set up by the films. I have a friend who is a huge fan of the Star Trek franchise and he’s a major rivet counter too which made it nearly impossible for him to enjoy Star Trek: Enterprise because that series muddied and already convoluted franchise. He really has that franchise down and small things like the first Enterprise having a view screen for communication really bugged him and on the occasion that the series revisited something from the original series he’d nearly have an aneurism over it.

When I do rivet count, I try to make sure it’s something truly imperative to the story not just some minor detail that really doesn’t make much difference to the adventure and drama that we are supposed to be enjoying with whatever movie or television series we are watching. I remember how some people got really fired up when the first Spider-Man film was on the way and word came that his web slinging abilities would come from the spider bite and not his ability to make a magic formula in his bedroom. That idea actually made sense to me and in the end it played much better in the movie than boy genius would have. Believe me, I’m not immune to succumbing to unnecessary rivet counting though, when I heard Gwen Stacey was going to be in the third movie I was a bit frustrated with that decision but in the final product, it really made no real difference.

When we are hardcore fans of something we are bound to rivet count to a point. I have read Spider-Man comics for most of my life so some decisions in the films bothered me, but i was able to get past it enough to enjoy the films, at least to varying degrees. Now, what Marvel has done to the Amazing Spider-Man comic is a different story all together. See, I have to stop now on that subject. As far as reviews here I have recently complained about Lena Headey not being muscular enough to look like Sarah should look. I expect her to look this way because Sarah looked this way in Terminator 2, so this counts as a rivet count. Now, I didn’t take points from my review because of this but I did take the time to complain about it. On that note Headey in real life is 35 and Thomas Dekker is 21 and they both pretty much look their ages. So based on that Sarah would have had to give birth to John at age 14. Now, this definitely doesn’t follow any sort of continuity. Also in Smallville, Tom Welling is 31 and I believe he looks that age. He’s playing Clark Kent who is in his early 20’s. This is Hollywood forsaking drama and any sort of realism in favor of image. It’s common, it happens in nearly every series on TV, so I don’t complain about it much. The fact that I pay this much attention could be called a rivet count and I accept that. It doesn’t however keep me from watching these shows.

This subject comes to mind because my friend who rivet counts Star Trek also won’t watch the new Battlestar Galactica because Starbuck is female. That just drives me crazy because the original BSG has not aged well so who cares if they made some changes like that for a modern, and superior, retelling of the story? When I get a chance to check out the comments here, I see a few really hardcore rivet counters so what I want to know is: why is rivet counting important enough for you to not even watch a show or to watch it and spend all of your time judging it because of the continuity inaccuracies?

Sometimes it can be difficult to tell a unique and modern story with years of continuity weighing a franchise down. I think Star Trek is a good example of this. That franchise needs a reboot and a fresh start. For me, there won’t ever be a more fun Captain of the Enterprise than William Shatner as Captain Kirk but there could be some fascinating stories with a more modern version of the ship and it’s captain. The show runners for Star Trek: The Next Generation ran out of steam when it came to Enterprise so that’s proof enough that someone needs to take a fresh look at the franchise. BSG is as near a perfect science fiction television series as there has ever been so in my eyes the writers can do whatever they want with the characters and story.

The times where I find myself giving in to rivet counting the most is when the modern story just doesn’t compare to what came before it. Tell me what you think, especially those of you that will admit to being addicted to the whole process of rivet counting.

Supernatural is already showing a rerun! NOOOOOO! The escape finally begins on Prison Break and I couldn’t be more excited. The Sarah Connor Chronicles also had one of it’s best episodes so far last week so I’m hoping it just keeps getting better with this week’s episode. LOST is also having a great run and I can’t wait to see what’s next. The big one this week though is the return of Jericho. The fans fought hard to get this series back on television so the creators better not let us down.

Monday

PRISON BREAK (FOX, 8PM EST) HELL OR HIGH WATER

The escape attempt succeeds for some, if not all, of the escapees, and those who make it receive assistance on the outside from an unlikely source. But one escapee inadvertently leaves something behind.

TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES (FOX, 9PM EST) QUEEN’S GAMBIT

Sarah's friend Andy enters his computer into a chess competition. While at the event, Sarah meets a stranger (Brian Austin Green) who shares a similar past. Meanwhile, Cameron undergoes grief counseling at school, and Agent Ellison tries to make sense out of the carnage resulting from a terminator clash. Andy Goode: Brendan Hines. Charley Dixon: Dean Winters.

Tuesday

JERICHO (CBS, 10PM EST) RECONSTRUCTION

As the second season begins, a new government steps in and restores order, but tensions between Jericho and New Bern continue unabated and Jake will not rest until he kills Constantino. Meanwhile, Hawkins fears his nemesis is still hunting him. Beck: Esai Morales. New Bern Gunman: Matthew Taylor.

DIRTY JOBS (DSC, 9PM EST) MUD MINERAL EXCAVATOR

Mike digs in Death Valley to prepare for a gem-and-mineral show; rescues injured birds from a salt lake; and works at a rice plantation in South Carolina.

Wednesday

MYTHBUSTERS (DSC, 9PM EST) VIEWER SPECIAL 2

Myths suggested by viewers on the show's fan site are put to the test.

GHOSTHUNTERS INTERNATIONAL (SCIFI, 9PM EST) HEADLESS HAUNTING

I couldn’t find a program description for the episode, but the title sounds pretty good.

Thursday

LOST (NBC, 9PM EST) THE ECONOMIST

Locke's hostage could be the key to getting off the island, so Sayid and Kate search for their fellow castaway in an attempt to negotiate a peaceful deal. Lapidus: Jeff Fahey. Faraday: Jeremy Davies. Charlotte: Rebecca Mader. Miles: Ken Leung.

SMALLVILLE (CW, 8PM EST) FRACTURE

Lois trails Lex to Detroit, where he has found Kara suffering from amnesia. A busboy (Corey Sevier) obsessed with Kara shoots Lex so he can't take her away, and holds Kara and Lois captive. Chloe finds Lex and offers to heal him, but Clark will not let her.

Friday

STARGATE ATLANTIS (SCIFI, 10PM EST) MIDWAY

Teal'c (Christopher Judge) goes to Atlantis to mentor Ronon ahead of an IOA review to determine his suitability for the Stargate program. Meanwhile, the Wraith kick-start a plot against the Midway station.

Saturday

FINAL DESTINATION 2 (SCIFI, 7PM EST)

Death is back and still smarting from the trouble caused by those Mt. Abraham high school students who, in FINAL DESTINATION (2000), refused to board a plane destined to blow up with them aboard. One teen's opportune vision bought them a temporary reprieve. But within days they started dying in freak accidents, because it's not nice to fool the Grim Reaper.

Sunday

THE SIMPSONS (FOX, 8PM EST) LOVE, SPRINGFIELDIAN STYLE

Homer and Marge celebrate Valentine's Day by going on the Tunnel of Love ride at a carnival, but they end up stranded when Bart pulls a prank involving gelatin. To pass the time, Homer tells the love story of Bonnie and Clyde, Marge tells her version of "Lady and the Tramp," and Bart tells the love story of Sid Vicious and Nancy Spungen.

FAMILY GUY (FOX 9PM EST) BACK TO THE WOODS

James Woods (in a voice cameo as himself) steals Peter's identity---and his family---after he finds Peter's wallet, which he had lost at a Barry Manilow concert. Manilow, who also lends his voice, performs a variation on "Mandy."

More From Mania

TV Wasteland: Ron Moore Goes Virtual

TV Wasteland: High Hopes on the Fringe
(Monday, July 21, 2008)
TV Wasteland: Three Essential Podcasts for Three Essential Shows/Movies
(Monday, June 30, 2008)
The Wasteland Awards 2005-06
(Monday, June 5, 2006)
Reality TV, My Way
(Monday, February 6, 2006)
The Worst of TV Wasteland
(Monday, June 21, 2004)
How to Date a TV Columnist
(Monday, April 21, 2003)
A Wasteland April Fools!
(Tuesday, April 1, 2003)

See more related content

More Content By Stephen Lackey, Columnist

JERICHO: Condor
(Thursday, February 21, 2008)
PRISON BREAK: The Art of the Deal
(Wednesday, February 20, 2008)
Strike Victims
(Monday, February 18, 2008)
LOST: The Economist
(Saturday, February 16, 2008)
SUPERNATURAL: Mystery Spot
(Saturday, February 16, 2008)
Jericho: Reconstruction
(Thursday, February 14, 2008)
Prison Break: Hell or High Water
(Wednesday, February 13, 2008)
Sarah Connor Chronicles: Queen's Gambit
(Wednesday, February 13, 2008)
RANT: Rivet Counting
(Monday, February 11, 2008)
SMALLVILLE: Siren
(Sunday, February 10, 2008)

Buy These Related Products

Comments/Responses

ponyboy76 • Feb 11, 2008, 04:50am •

Damn!, I was kind of hoping that they would never find Kara. She is cute and all but she`s couldn`t act her way out of a room entirely made of doors. Last episode of Smallville was pretty good though and I hope they bring back the rest of the Junior JLA.

shadowprime • Feb 11, 2008, 05:35am •

The whole "rivet counting" thing is interesting to me, because it makes us, as fans, think about "what really counts" (in our humble opinions!) and what doesn't, when it comes to a character, a series, etc. And while it is easy to define what rivet counting is, as an abstract concept, I think it gets trickier to define in the specific.

Take the Starbuck gender-switch... I agree that the "new", female Starbuck proved to be a very interesting character. Well-written, well-acted, a great asset to the series. HOWEVER>..

What she WASN'T was the same kind of foil for the Apollo character that the previous Starbuck - a MAN - was. And she COULDN'T be. I would hope we aren't so hobbled by PC-ness that we can't suggest that the dynamics are inherently different between a man and a man and a man and a woman (er...in most cases). Starbuck and Apollo were best friends, guys who had been through the wars together - Apollo was more by the book, more straightlaced, and Starbuck was a partier, a "ladies' man" ( a dated term, I realize).

SO if you thought the Apollo/Starbuck dynamic was a big part of GALACTICA, somethign you enjoyed or saw as key to the "feel" of the series... making Starbuck a woman was NOT "rivet counting". IT fundamentally changed the basic chemistry and feel of the show. That doesn't mean the new set up can't work, that the new Starbuck can't be a great character, that you shouldn't watch GALACTIICA... but I don't think those who complained were "rivet counting".

IMHO...

And that is what makes the topic interesting.. when you start having those kinds of discussions, you learn what you, and what others, think are the essential elements that are important to a character, or a show's, appeal...

Godzilla - generic giant lizard, or does it take more to "really" be GODZILLA? Spiderman - organic webshooters? Captain America - firearms? Sarah Connor - buff, grim, "spartan" soldier? What costume elements can you change - if any? Does race matter? Gender? Age? The time in which the story is set? And so on...

Shadow

shadowprime • Feb 11, 2008, 05:37am •

rgtchtiger • Feb 11, 2008, 07:01am •

I honestly never heard the term "rivet counting" before now, and while I am a life-long Star Trek fan, I don't think I've ever let minor missteps in continuity ruin my enjoyment of an episode, film, or series. Voyager was the one big loser of any Star Trek series in my book, but that was mostly due to an entire cast of uninteresting characters. When the series first started, there were several examples of very deep and complex characters that could have been developed. Paris, Torres, Tuvok, the Holodoc, and possibly Chakotay all came off as very interesting people. When Seven of Nine joined the show, the writers wisely dumped a boring and uninteresting character (Kes) in favor of Seven. Unfortunately, Seven also fell into the trap of being drab and boring due to the writers on the show. Anyways, I would say in my opinion Voyager failed due to poor writing as opposed to rivet counting.

Now there is a group of shows that I could say does fall into rivet counting for me. That group is the CSI shows. I absolutely cannot watch any of them because I think it's absolutely ridiculous that crime scene investigators will compile the evidence in a crime and then actually go out to question the suspects and ultimately arrest them. That's the job for homicide cops!!!! The investigators turn evidence over to them and the homicide cops take the cases over from there. Plus the larger issue I have with the show is that every case is solved by the end of each episode. Not every case is solved in a manner of days, guys. Many cases go unsolved for years before there's any closure (Bayliss' case on Homicide: Life on the Street is a good example), and I cannot buy into that element of any of the CSI shows (or most cop shows who use the same pattern for that matter).

WhiteKnight • Feb 11, 2008, 07:40am •

Rgtchtiger, there are so many better reasons not to watch CSI right now. Like the near absolute lack of character development and over utilized threats of killing off main characters. I watched the show for about 7 years before finally writing it off for those reasons.

As for Trek, call me a rivet counter if you must, but after seven seasons of Voyager and a premiere episode of Enterprise that completely disregarded all sense of franchise continuity I was done with any Rick Berman produced Trek series.

Trek didn't fall from grace because the fans were rivet counters, it failed because the producers were bean counters more interested in the almight dollar than in producing a series its fans would appreciate.

TheMatrix • Feb 11, 2008, 07:50am •

The original Sara Conner needs to be on The Terminater: The Sara Conner Cronicles. The show's not the same without her. This Sara's a wiimp. In the movies, Sara kicks but.

mbeckham1 • Feb 11, 2008, 07:56am •

Well, this is a subject near and dear to my heart. Some months ago Entertainment Weekly published top 50 scifi movies and television series. A week later they published an articel answering complaints about certain omissions.

For most of these they gave detailed non-rivet counting expanations that were repectful to the fans of each example.

Buffy wasn't a scifi series so didn't apply, same with Angel.

Babylon 5, too tight a story arc, hard to pick upin the middle. I was a bit iffy about that, given that Lost and BSG made the cut and re at least as guilty of same, but then they admitted that they probably should have inclued it and ended with an "our bad" so I'm cool there.

Then they came to Farscape. As a Farscape fan I was gratified to see that enough people wrote in about it's exclusion and there would have been any number explanations for its omission. The series isn't for everyone and it is definitely not easy to pick up in the middle.

It didn't really bother me that hadn't been on the list, but then they gave the reason and it just ticked me off, and has never failed to tick me off when I've heard it before or since.

They didn't like it because it had "muppets".

Fist of all, Miss Piggy, Kermit the Frog, Gonzo, the old dudes in the balcony seat and the eagle are all muppets. As a proud owner of this series on DVD which I've watched often, I can say with abolute certainty, none of those characters have ever appeared on this series, nor do I believe any character from that series ever made an actual appearance.

Secondly, use of puppets, with a "p", was an intellegent choice that enabled the producers to make aliens that looked truly alien, not just humans with funny ears or noses, while giving the actors a physical entity to interact with rather than a CGI place holder.

Third, is this not the definition of rivet counting, when they can't even get past the name of the production comany or the choice of FX tools to pay any attention to, I don't know, little things like acting, story, dialogue, writting, directing.

Don't like those either...fine but say that and talk about those aspects, don't give me "it's got muppets" just because the Henson company does the effects. It's cheap and insulting as explanations go.

As far as Starbuck being a chick, absolutely, that's a big change, alters the whole dynamic of Apollo and Starbuks relationship, and is one of a great many signiicant changes from the original series, all of I find to be imprvements that complicate and enrich the new story. But no that is in no way a minor detail.

The organic worked better for the movie version of Peter Parker, because having to build a webshooter would have made his movement into being a hero too deliberate when it was important to put the changes in his life outside of his control. So, much more gained than lost I think.

Lena Heady, I doubt Linda Hamilton was a realistic casting option for a weekly series, and they could have done much worse in terms of both acting ability and toughness factor.

But "muppets" I'm calling that rivet counting, and by people who apparently don't know what a rivet looks like, 'cause Rygel and Pilot AREN'T MUPPETS.

jacetheace • Feb 11, 2008, 08:16am •

I agree 100% with rgtchtiger. I can see rivet counting during cops shows and medical dramas, but shows about space ships and aliens? I mean, it's not supposed to be real. That's why it's called science FICTION.
:)

ponyboy76 • Feb 11, 2008, 08:47am •

Yeah, but CSI, isn`t supposed to be real either. Come on, if CSI was real everyone and their mom would be getting away with every crime imaginable. All you`d have to do is watch CSI and not do it the way the bad guys did it on the show to get caught. This reminds me of that scene in SuperBad where they are talking to McLovin about the liquor store thief getting away. There is no database that has every guys semen sample or DNA in it. There is no CODIS. Really, they never said any of it was real. If you can`t suspend your disbelief for 42 mins so that some CSI`s can solve a case in a day, then I feel sorry for you. Its fiction, plain and simple. And for the record they don`t always solve a case in a day or even at all. Grissom has had quite a few cases that have gone either unsolved or he`s worked on through whole seasons. Also, the CSI`s never do the arresting. There is always a detective there or officer doing that. They are just present at the scene.

mbeckham1 • Feb 11, 2008, 08:54am •

I thought the freshest take on the Star trek universe was and is Deep Space Nine.

It challengened the Federations sense of moral superiority, and tested thier tolerace, by putting a affluent, imperical society in uneasy alliance with an abused and impoverished highly religious society, having them deal with a Ferengi bartender/arms dealer among other things, and their Cardassian neighbors, not to mention brawling Klingons and all that just on the Alpha side of the wormhole.

In a series aboutuniversal tolerance, they had the first and only non-white leader in five series, the first female second in command since the original pilot on which the Managery was based and an alien to boot, and also not from the Federation or Starfleet. And it had a higher non-human to human ratio aong the core cast than any other Trek series. Hell, even the station was of nonFederation design and looked in every frame

DS9 walked the walk, when the other serieses just made speeches about the walk
while sitting in a ship whose interiors look like reception and meeting rooms in a Howard Johnson, with a really big screen TV.

But what really set it apart was a strong story arc and an excellent array of recurring guest characters. They had to stay put, and there things they did had consequences and relationships, both political and personal, changed but did not end.

And of course, the writers new what to do with their characters and never rn out of interesting stories and situations to put them in.

As oppsed the "not another holodeck malfunction" episodes which seemed to number in the dozens on Voyager. And TNG wasn't far behind. Did they not have "Out of Order" signs in the 24th century.

Did Picard not get tired of writing letters to bereved mothers and spouses? "He was a brave crewman, who died playing Sam Spade 'cause our Holodecks screwed up...again."

DS9 did maybe four episodes in which the Holodeck (or Holosuite) was the major factor and only one where the safety protocols went off line, hey maybe the Federation should buy their Holodecks from the Ferengi.

Mania is the premiere online destination for fans of science fiction, fantasy, horror, and anime entertainment. It is the largest community offering profiles, video, science fiction movies, sci fi TV, art, sci fi comics, photos, cheats, blogs, science fiction books, forums and feedback. Mania offers insider entertainment industry info and original content for science fiction, fantasy, and horror entertainment genres including: video games, comics, gadgets, movies, television, toys, music, books, DVDs and more. © Mania Entertainment, LLC. 2001 - 2008