Talking Torchwood

Well I can tell you this, the creators of this show expect that you do watch Dr Who. The reason this show is a success at all is because they laid the seeds in the first and second series of Who. And while Torchwood is very successful in Britain Dr.Who is an institution. Everyone there who watches Torchwood watches Dr. Who.
They built this show based on that. I mean Captain Jack was introduced on Dr.Who and has been in a half a series worth of episodes at least, more if you knew about what he will become and think back to earlier episodes.
Now I tried the Pilot for Torchwood over a year ago and it just didn't hook me, maybe I will give it another shot though but I would have to agree if becomes a soap opera I certainly won't stick with it.

I actually really like Torchwood and in many ways it's what I wish the X-Files could have become. The part I'm talking about in particular is if you are investigating these paranormal things and have access to alien technology, magic, what have you why not use it against the things your are trying to fight. The X-Files every freaking episode started off from square one... anyway.

I do agree with Taco in that you only have a fraction of the information if you don't watch Dr. Who. Basically, if you'd watch Who you'd know the end of the story for the good Captain Jack, but without it you are in fact left in the dark about a lot of things.

Finally as to your review, I think it was a bit harsh. I would watch this D episode, in your estimation of it, to any episode of Flash Gordon. I'd put the episode at about a C. Not the best, but not a failing grade either.

Edit: To Taco, if you can you might want to rent the first series and watch the whole thing, it gets better. I liked the first episode, but things don't really get into stride until about the third or fourth episode if my memory is serving me correctly.

You may or may not like the episode on it's own merits, but you are way off-base with your comments about needing to have seen Dr Who for it to make sense. If you didn't feel the need to see Doctor Who before the series started, you don't need to have seen the crossover episode either. And if you were wondering what happened then you weren't watching - in the season 1 finale Jack is clearly shown using the Doctor's hand to find the Tardis. And in this episode he clearly states that he was away with the Doctor but decided he belonged with Torchwood. And even if this adventure hadn't been shown on Doctor Who, a character disappearing mysteriously in between seasons is something that happens often in tv series. In any case, the only two major Jack related things that happened in the crossover were that he finally found the Doctor and decided not to keep traveling with him, and his link to the Face of Boe, both of which were resolutions to things established on the DW show which made better sense resolving there than on Torchwood. As for Jack's other previous adventures with the Doctor, all the salient points have already been covered within Torchwood.

Between the unevenness of the first series of Torchwood, and the crash and burn that was the finale of Doctor Who series 3, I'm not getting my expectations too high any more.

So, I really enjoyed this episode, and I'd give it a B.

"And if you were wondering what happened then you weren't watching - in the season 1 finale Jack is clearly shown using the Doctor's hand to find the Tardis."

Umm, that would be the point of the review, jackdavinci: if you haven't seen Doctor Who, you have nfc what the hand is about and you have nfc where Jack went at the end of series 1.

And please don't bring up that damn throwaway line. It was just that: a throwaway line. And so many have taken it hook, line, and sinker. Gah.

Actually, the part I liked best about this episode was the way the team learned to function without Jack.

My recollrection is that Jack did run out at the end of the first season finale, and the team was left wondering why.

So in a way, without seeing the Doctor Wo eps your pretty much sharing the perspective of Gwen and the others which is what we're usually doing anyway where Jack's concerned. Taht he had his own agenda and might leave if he found his "doctor" was a thread establuished from the first pisode of Torchwood. From the shows perspective, it's just one among many adventures he's had without them.

I ddin't think of the Who eps as neccassary or even particularly helpful in understanding the gap between the finale and premier, anymoreknowing where Buffy went on the Summer between season one and season two was neccessary. What was important was that the team learn to act without him.

Getting back to that. This was the first episode where the Torchwood team really started to act like the professionals, fighting and investigating shoulder to shoulder, that they were supposed to be in the first place.

One of the only prblems I had with season one was that each of the charcters were so stuck in their own neurosis that they could barely function on their save the Earth missions, they were just the dumb normal humamns Jack kept having to bail out.

In this episode, from the start we see really wrking together, relying on each others strengths and focusing on the mission at hand instead of being lost in their own little worlds.

And by the time he comes back, fr them, neither he, nor they know if he still has a place.

Gwen's gotten use to being the leader, the others seem to be working with her better than they ever did with Jack, which I think is an interesting subtext. They're more equal, Jack and the others. I'm not saying the personal dramas should be ditched, but we should be seeing these people as heroes in their own right.

If the name John Hart threw out at the end is a sign of things to come, Jack may be reliant on the teamthan they are on him, which would be a nice change. I also liked that Ianto saved the team and Owen came up with the plan to save Gwen rather than it being all about Jack.

It sets a new and refreshing tone for the series. Also ne in tone, that scene with the blowfish was priceless and i'm glad to see some humor injected into this show. i love BSG and Lost and honestly watch enough of those in one week(apart from the Hurley episodes) and I'm ready to open a vein, they're just so grim and serious and tense, and that's great but sometimes a little dose of camp humor is really nice.

I also like that John's "nothing means anything" attitude is complicated by a real obession with Jack, similiar to Spike's obsession with Buffy, it makes an interesting dynamic between the two. And the kiss and fisticuffs scene was all good fun, and similar scenes between men and women have made thier way to movies and television before without getting the label Slash fiction attatched.

Riggs and Lorna in Lethal Weapon 3, Mike Weston and Fiona in Burn Notice this past spring, and Buffy and Spike in Buffy season 6. And those lead to full on sex, this was just a snog.

Though I agree the Ianto date scene was a bit awkward, mostly because we don't have a clear idea of what thier relationship is supposed to be, so we don't know what's banter and what's meant to be serious, though the office fetish bit was funny.

The turnabout at the end was kind of fun too.

So, while it didn't have the conseptual briliance of Small Worlds with the diffeent kinds of faeries, it did establish some welcome changes in the characters and the status quo. And revealed some new potential I'm definitely interested in seeing explored.

"the crash and burn that was the finale of Doctor Who series 3"???

That finale is among the best of modern Doctor Who episodes. What is not to like?

Ageed! Season 3 was awesome. Simms was brilliant as the Master and Freema took full advantage of her chance to shine as Martha Jones, the history between the Doctor and the Master as Timelords was brilliantly played and emotionally compelling and Jack, Doc, and Martha worked brillianty together throughout the three parter.

Plus, Derek Jacobi as the earlier Master, and a jellybabies reference. What more could you ask?

"What is not to like?"

Peter Pan, Harry Potter, Flash Gordon, among other things.

By the time the episode was over, I wasn't sure if I had accidentally gotten my hands on a copy of Epic Movie.

"Peter Pan, Harry Potter, Flash Gordon, among other things."

I don't begin to understand this. Care to enlighten me? Are you reciting the top of your Netflix queue for me?

I thought the finale was absolutely brilliant. I was not able to catch the episodes until they came out on DVD. I have to admit there are some extremely weak episodes such as the Dalek two-parter and the Lazarus episode. But the last half of the season is some of the best sci-fi put out in years.

Peter Pan is in reference to the whole Doctor flying around and transforming crap, which was probably the worst part of the whole crappy episode. Say his name loudly and that will happen? My god, that's some of the worst sci-fi I've seen in years.

Harry Potter. Ever seen that little rat-like thing that show up now and then? Doobie or whatever it's called? Yeah, 1000-shrunken CG Doctor... something else totally unnecessary to the story.

The whole hand grabbing the ring from the ground is a direct ripoff of a scene from the Flash Gordon movie. If it's a homage, then Davies was no longer bothering to hide them any more.

There were others, but I'm not about to go back and re-watch the episode; I'm still trying to burn the memory of it out of my brain to begin with.

Oh, and lest I forget: the complete and utter bs that the Doctor whisper's something into Martha's ear so that a year hence everything falls into place. The Doctor knows exactly what the Master is going to do in a motherf*cking year? God, what nonsense and laziness.

Truly, I want RTD to cut back on his scriptwriting. For every good episode he writes, he comes up with some real manure.

And things were so promising at the end of Utopia, too.