Mania Hulk Discussion


Was This Hulk Really Necessary?

By: Rob Vaux
Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008

Before I begin, I should note that it's generally bad form to comment on a movie before having seen it. Writing this before The Incredible Hulk opened leaves me open to a lot of sticks and stones. But almost since the announcement of production, a sense of "why bother" hung over this one like alcoholic fumes. So as Hulk 2.0 crashes into theaters, it behooves us to take a little whiff and ask what prompted the creation of a film that no one was exactly clamoring for. Edward Norton? Great. More action? Fantastic. Not strictly a sequel to Ang Lee's less-than-beloved 2003 original? Fine and dandy.

So why does all of that feel like a reason not to hate The Incredible Hulk rather than a reason to love it?

Frankly, the Lee film has been unjustly maligned over the past five years, and I think this new Hulk knows it. Lee's deviation from canon and philosophical approach left a number of fans decidedly cold, and yet those very qualities helped set the 2003 Hulk apart from the rest of the comic adaptation pack. It took a genuinely original look at the superhero genre, marked by Lee's inventive split-screen visuals and an intensity to the violence that proved downright shocking at points. The Hulk himself made an ideal fulcrum for such a deviation. He was never a typical superhero, after all, with his Jekyll and Hyde origins and penchant for mindless destruction. Why not use him to shake up the format a little bit instead of just aping the X-Men or Spider-Man franchises? Though far from perfect, Lee's version remains genuinely unique, and its recent appearance at Roger Ebert's Overlooked Film Festival suggests a growing number of people have discovered its previously ignored strengths.


Moreover, while the Edward Norton non-sequel promises a clean break from all that, it still retains the thick sheen of its predecessor. Norton and director Louis Leterrier reportedly clashed with Marvel over elements that were deemed "too cerebral"—the same accusations that dogged Lee's film—and Norton has declined to participate in promotion based on differences over the final cut. Marvel vetoed a lengthier version of the movie over Norton's and Leterrier's objections, apparently rejecting the artists they hired to escape Lee's thoughtfulness… because they were too thoughtful.

A second similarity is more difficult to avoid considering the nature of the character. Like Lee's film, this new Hulk is a CGI effect: big and scary, yes, but also remarkably artificial. The 2003 version suffered a devastating PR blow when an early print featuring sub-par effects was leaked on the internet. The final product looked much better, but people still complained about an unduly cartoonish appearance to the character. That 's clearly carried over to the new version—a necessity perhaps, but further illustrating that its ballyhooed changes are more cosmetic than they would have us believe.

It also causes a certain detachment, presenting the Hulk as more of a cool image than a figure we can identify with. Similar CGI characters can get around that with good dialogue, but the Hulk never speaks except in enraged howls, reducing his emotional palate and further reminding us that we're looking at an image rather than a performer. Many of us still think of Lou Ferrigno as the definitive Hulk because we can better connect to the human face beneath that green make-up. The Incredible Hulk apparently uses Ferrigno's voice for their monster—a classy move, if true—but the principle remains unchanged. If you want to escape that horrible stinky Lee version, why follow the same means of generating the character?

The film's apparent villain falls into the CGI trap as well. As great a superhero as he is, the Hulk never had a sterling rogues gallery. The U.S. Army seemed the best foil for him: a threatening industrial system which he could bash real good. For The Incredible Hulk, they've brought out the Abomination to spice things up: basically just a bigger, meaner, uglier version of the Hulk. The concept can work—Iron Man did okay with Jeff Bridges' War Monger—but it further reduces the equation to special effects pounding on each other, with comparatively little human involvement.

That implication reaches its most troubling ends with a wholesale swapping out of the cast—replacing every performer from Lee's version with new ones. Why? To distance themselves, of course, and to reiterate the notion that this is, in essence, a reboot without actually coming out and calling it such. It's a solid cast, to be sure—Oscar winners and Oscar nominees abound, and that Liv Tyler is awful cute—but it also suggests that the producers at Marvel feel their characters are essentially interchangeable. Few actresses can conjure soulful vulnerability the way Jennifer Connelly did in the first film, and while William Hurt is a terrific performer, he doesn't hold a candle to Sam Elliot in the don't-tread-on-me military prickliness department. Such a massive changeover loses the benefits they bring to the table, and none of the cast names attached to The Incredible Hulk conjures a huge amount of enthusiasm. (Yes, Batman Begins made a similar switch, but only after its predecessor, Batman and Robin, had laid such a hideously stench-filled egg that people still speak of it in hushed tones. I don't think even the biggest detractors of the Lee film would lump his work alongside such a disaster.)

Perhaps it’s the tentative nature of the re-imagining that makes The Incredible Hulk so puzzling. They don't wish to reject the Lee version completely the way Christopher Nolan did previous Batman entries. Yet neither are they comfortable acknowledging it beyond the most perfunctory ways… even as they appear to wrestle with the same issues that Lee did. Their primary selling point—beyond the big green guy himself—seems to be that they're not Lee. And yet they haven't displayed anything of their own to accentuate that difference beyond new faces and a promise of more action. It's hard to generate excitement for a soup so seemingly thin. None of this matters if the film itself delivers the goods of course. I sincerely hope it does, if for no other reason than to give opponents of the Lee film a Hulk they can love. But as the release date draws closer, The Incredible Hulk still feels like its trying to justify itself… and the answers it's providing have yet to ring true.


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Comments/Responses
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NotAFan • Jun 14, 2008, 12:46am •
I think the real question here is: "Was This Article Really Necessary?". What you couldn't wait a day or two 'till you actually saw the movie? BTW: EEEWWWWWWWWWWW, you liked Ang Lee's Hulk!

mckracken • Jun 14, 2008, 01:09am •
yeah believe it some people actually liked Ang Lee's Hulk, I mean all you have to do is hold it up against THREE other box office weiners Ghost Rider, Daredevil and Fantastic Four to realize its not THAT bad of a film. it hs its fair share of problems, yes but BAD? c'mon... even Flash Gordon is herald as a "cult classic" and Howard the Duck is the standard to measure any bad movie...and at least Ang Lee didnt cast Rob Schneider to bounce comedic one-liners off his Hulk either. So quit yer bitchin' and let it slide a little.

let it be stated for the record that the cgi in Ang Lee's HULK was no better or no worse than the CGI used to create YODA and JAR JAR Binks. Love it, hate it - he's still green and big and doesnt look realistic because... uh... he's fucking huge and fucking green and wears purple cutoffs?

anybody that claims that the CGI used on the Hulk was "shit" or "horrible" or (the most absurd of all) "FAKE LOOKING" needs only to be reminded that the Hulk is a big green fictional character (believe it) that will NEVER fit into anything live action - WHY? its simple, people thought the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park looked real because they matched pictures we've seen in books, plus they were as real as you or I, they're just extinct. Now the Hulk (along with his CGI friends YODA and JAR JAR Binks) isnt real and theres no way that anyone will trick your mind into believing what you're witnessing on screen is "NOT FAKE"... because its perposterous. He's big and green, get over it. It looked great.
now, the Hulk poodle dogs looked convincing too... they were just stupid.
Stupid ideas should not be confused with FAKE LOOKING CGI.. if you want to see an example of fake CGI watch Sci/Fi channel's Grendel or SS Doomtrooper, or Wooley Mammoth or Insectizoids from Galaxy 10 or some such garbage.

Blaim the writer, blaim Ang Lee, but leave the CGI complaints home.

TayDor • Jun 14, 2008, 03:35am •
Exactly mckracken. I don't get the idiots bitching about the CGI. He's big and green, he'll never be 100% believable.

I liked the Ang Lee version, except for the ending. I liked the cerebralness of it, how they set up Banner as a repressed type. It was interesting.

I like the new Hulk too. I liked that they spent time showing Banner finding ways to control his anger. It would be hard to live on a daily basis knowing that one slip of control means a few city blocks gets destroyed.

I think the real problem with the Hulk movies is the kids of today are all ADD, ritalin-junkies who find movies that have real stories without being edited like some hyperkinetic music video to be boring. If someone isn't shooting a gun or throwing a punch every 30 seconds, it's boring. To those people I say, "Stay the hell out of movie theatres and play with your Xboxes."

adny2 • Jun 14, 2008, 05:07am •
mckracken, and Taydor, i agree with you to 1000%. and for the record, i loved the Ang Lee film for its drama, and extended storytelling. yes the movie could of ended after the San Fransisco scene, but hey, everything before that point was still really, really good.

im more into a super hero movie that takes its time in developing who the character is and why he's needed in our world. Superman, Batman Begins, Spiderman, and Hulk did their jobs perfectly (and Wonder Woman better have Superman's treatment of seriousness and reality). The writings in those films felt like special events that showcased why we needed to see these powerful guys on the big screen. not just slapped together action sequences without using and expressing what the characters are about (Daredevil and Ghostrider comes to mind).

I just saw the new Incredible Hulk film. and yes i did enjoy it. but i have to admit the Ang Lee version really did a better job in detailing the character of the Hulk more closely to the comic version (outside of his wild action sequences). Hulk's ability to leap large distances (not fly), Hulk's size increase when angered, and most importantly, Hulk's rage. This new movie really didnt touch on the point of the Hulk as far as his rage is expressed. Sure he's ticked off, and delivered some great fights, but the point of his 'rage' was better expressed in Lee's version.

I will say this about The Incredible Hulk film. it felt more like a salute to Bill Bixby. which isn't a bad thing. but wow, way too many nods towards the tv show as oppose to just making a NEW Hulk experience, like what Ang Lee did. and yeah i know...it was an intentional effort.

almostunbiased • Jun 14, 2008, 05:51am •
I only agree with you 100%. But seriously, I liked both versions, and I think this article was UN-necessary. I had no gripes with the second film (other than the rage thing). And only a few ok maybe several about the first, but they were both fun action.

Oh and I finally watched Jumper last night thanks to Netflix, and I'm not sure why people hated it. I thought it was cool. (So maybe that's not saying much for my taste.) It wasn't a great movie, but why does everyone hate it so much? Very cool concept and could make some cool sequels with the whole Paladin/Jumper war story line.
I would hate to work for the Director though after watching the extras. He's a little too unorganized and spacey, for a big box office flick. I can see why they didn't have him make the next Bourne now, although I loved what he made, you just wouldn't know how long or much it would cost you.

hanso • Jun 14, 2008, 06:32am •
Not A Fan is right, Was this article really necessary?

Ang Lee's Hulk sucks.

Kang • Jun 14, 2008, 06:54am •
The Ang lee version was a piece of garbage. Who wants to go to the movie and see a "cerebral" interpretation of the hulk. I sure as hell don't. When I see a hulk movie I want to see what has been reflected in some of the better hulk stories. They actually pay you to make crap commentary like this? People go to the movie to escape for a couple of hours and have a good time. Who wants to sit there and watch a cerebral superhero movie. I am glad Marvel Studios is involved in how their product is represented. X3 was garbage and Spider-Man 3 was trash. Stick the formula that works which is smash and destroy. Dude you are a bonafide apologist for that trash ang lee made. It was crap.

Whiskeymovie • Jun 14, 2008, 07:08am •
The more I watch the first Hulk, the more I enjoy it,,,,it is actually a very good movie, except for the end, which was stated already....I am never too harsh on films because they are movies,,,,either they are good or they are bad....it won't effect my life either way.

almostunbiased • Jun 14, 2008, 07:53am •
I'm with you Whiskeymovie. (Well not literally. I don't even know where you are. I meant figuratively speaking. I'm on the same page as you, and in the case of this site it's true, but that's not what I meant either. Oh just stop typing.)

smegforbrain • Jun 14, 2008, 08:41am •
"I think the real question here is: "Was This Article Really Necessary?"

I agree. No matter how you slice it, you're talking about a 10' tall green goliath... it's a fictional character.

The point is to suspend your disbelief and just accept it for what it is. Otherwise, what's the point of even writing for a site that is mostly about genre entertainment!?

"Who wants to go to the movie and see a "cerebral" interpretation of the hulk."

Umm, fyi, the writers who have been most heralded for their work on the Hulk over the years balanced both the "Hulk Smash" and the cerebral. Some of the best writing ever has been when they get into the Hulk's head.

And yes, I did enjoy Ang Lee's Hulk in part because he tried something that was cerebral, knowing the potential of the character. But imo what brought the movie down what the crap with Banner's father... that just didn't work at all.

And while I was wondering if I would be disappointed with Incredible Hulk, I went to see it last night and I very much enjoyed it as well. It's still flawed, but that's ok.

Yes, it's better than Lee's Hulk, but they are both different takes on the same character - much like there have been many iterations of the Hulk over the years (gray, green; smart, dumb).

And both films can both be enjoyed for how they go about it, regardless of whether each film fully succeeds.

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